“Evolved into a coup”
Hillary Clinton, continuing to show her ignorance of Latin America, has a hard time understanding that using the military to overthrow an elected President is a “coup”… not something that “evolves into a coup” as she is quoted as saying this morning.
While those who supported the action — like foreign blogger “La Gringa” (in La Ceiba, Honduras) — hesitates to use the word (“All this international blustering about the “coup” in Honduras is really bothering me. I really regret using that word because after learning more about what happened, I would not call it that“) hesitated to use the dreaded word, at the same time they feel comfortable praising those (like Mary Anastasia O’Grady in the Wall Street Journal) who openly call the Honduran military strike against their constituionally mandated chief) a “coup.
[As an aside, the Honduran Constitution is somewhat unique in that it spells out the military chain of command. Much of the legal rationale for the coup comes from the bi-furcated command structure. The Commander-in-Chief is appointed by Congress. However, the C-i-C must obey Presidental orders. Zelaya had fired the C-i-C, whose reinstatement was ordered by the Supreme Court. The C-i-C then resigned. I’m no expert, but it would seem this means that the President was the ultimate commander for the armed forces and soldiers were following illegitimate orders.]
La Gringa also echoes Jack Nicholson in “Mars Attacks!” when — as the President of the United States — reacting to the Martians having vaporized the United States House of Representatives, he reassures the nation by saying, “We still have two out of three branches of government, and that ain’t bad.” Writing that this is not a coup because “the government of Honduras (at least two branches of it) have been and continue to be in charge.” is ridiculous. Sending the Army to arrest the legislature, or close down the courts is also a coup.
While I think “La Gringa” is correct in writing:
We don’t want or need international intervention from Venezuela, Nicaragua, the US, or anyone else. I feel a little resentful hearing the meddling comments from other countries. The US can’t and does not need to try to save every country in the world.
What I particularly resent living and writing on Latin American affairs is the way real events (and real deaths) are spun by foreign commentators not for the benefit of anyone “down here”, but as a way of pushing their own domestic agendas. This came clear to me after the 2006 Presidential elections here in Mexico when the U.S. “left” (or rather, the non-right) used it as a way of talking about Al Gore, and “gee, why didn’t we go to the streets (uh… maybe because in the U.S. people are afraid to take a stand that might seriously inconvenience them?) or by the right to talk about the dangers of economic upheaval (and the need to fight gun control laws!).
Latin American nations need to resolve their own problems, based on their own history and political culture. And, as I always do, I point out the wisdom of Benito Juarez in saying “among nations, as among neighbors, respect for the rights of others is the way of peace.” But that does not mean justifying our neighbor’s actions when they act like boneheads, or make excuses for criminality. And, in some ways, this is Mexico’s concern, given the county’s traditional role as an arbitrator in Central American affairs (Honduras was part of Mexico at one time), as a refuge for those fleeing persecution and as a national security concern — when there is violence in Central America, armed groups have crossed into Mexico territory on a number of occasions.
Anyway, there is universal condemnation (and even Hillary Clinton has “evolved” to the point of getting the point) for subverting the political process. Preserving the economic system — that gets more support — but, how deep that support is in Honduras is questionable.
As of this morning, protests (turning violent) had already begun in Tegucigalpa, but — as “La Gringa” and major news organizions are reporing, news within the country is being controlled, or blacked out.
With the news controlled in Honduras, there’s not much choice but to rely on alternative sources. But, there’s also some danger in relying on foreign bloggers (including me) for your news… or bloggers in general. As To The Roots says, vis-a-vis the Honduran and Iranian crisises:
Obviously there is no internet (or power) for the people of Honduras – a major problem for the fickle do-gooders in Western democracies. If one cannot see it, if one is not horrified – then it’s easy to look away. There will be no tweets from Honduras, no upper-class revolt. For Honduras, the upper-class, the oligarchical class, is against social movements and is, in fact, orchestrating and supporting the ideology of this coup. There is a surprising solidarity of classes protesting in Iran – it has way more wealth than Honduras – makes it easier for the West to support.
And, apparently, if the Army isn’t shooting people in front of the gardener from La Ceiba, there is no coup.
mexfiles.net 
The problem with seeing the world as an us vs them debate is that you can end up supporting some real idiots, like Mel Zelaya. The left should bow out gracefully on this one. Honduras will settle this as they see fit and no other country should get involved. Have you read Zelaya’s statement where he says the US should intervene and put him back in as president? Fool!
There are no good guys in this one, both sides are corrupt and from the oligarchy and picking one over the other is clutching at straws. Just because Zelaya went broke from corruption and reached out for some of Chavez’s oil money does not make him a leftist or a friend of the poor and the downtrodden. If he convinces Chavez to move on Honduras militarily it will be an enormous tragedy.
I think La Gringa does an excellent job of translating and putting together what she reads and sees there in Honduras. She is a great resource for many with friends and relatives there as well as for those who don’t read Spanish. I also think that she is incredibly fair, not jumping on either bandwagon. As usual, the situation is not black and white and trying to cling to a left vs right view of the world just blinds you to reality.
Not calling a military strike against one out of three branches of government something other than a coup is bad logic, and worse policy.
That the particulars in this case (parallel to changes sought in Colombia) are sold as a “left” v. “right” issue, has very little to do with whether or not there was a coup, whether such actions are a danger to democracies in the Americas or whether or not there is repression in Honduras under the guise of protecting the status quo.
“Obviously there is no internet (or power) for the people of Honduras”
How do you suppose I watched CNN, read all the news, posted blog articles, photos from the newspapers, twittered, and facebooked and received and sent about 1,000 emails while we were in a blackout? My first article was posted at 8:42 a.m., about 2 1/2 hours after the event/coup and that was only because I didn’t wake up until 7:30. I was in contact with people in several cities in Honduras. Obviously, information from Venezuela via Kansas about circumstances in Honduras just might not be the best source.
The truth is that there were only a few hours of power and cable interruption — and what’s new about that in a 3rd world country? I had 3 times that amount of blackouts in the 5 days preceding this incident.
Interesting, CNN en Español, using Telesur’s feed and reporter is STILL reporting this censorship today without indicating that their videos are reruns from Sunday! The online Honduran newspapers are not being censored, anti-Zelaya or pro-Zelaya. The TV stations have been broadcasting news since about 11 a.m. that morning and based on comparison with CNN, they and the newspapers are doing a much better job.
“And, apparently, if the Army isn’t shooting people in front of the gardener from La Ceiba, there is no coup.”
That is pretty flippant and shows that international media has done a very poor job of reporting facts. The military has been completely professional, especially considering that most of them look to be about 16 years old. They have also been incredibly restrained considering that pro-Zelaya supporters have thrown rocks at the soldiers, breaking at least one soldier’s nose, and hit them with sticks. I haven’t read all of the newspapers today, but I haven’t heard of one single person being shot, which I think you might also find pretty incredible for a Latin American coup, no?
Incidentally, the congressman that Roots reported as murdered by the military is surprisingly alive and well in the US Embassy. Additionally, the beaten and kidnapped ambassadors were neither beaten nor kidnapped. Venezuela is a very bad source of accurate information about Honduras for obvious reasons.
I guess I don’t really care what you call it. I’ll leave it to the Honduran government to explain. They seem very confident that they acted legally and earnestly want the opportunity to explain to the world why that is so. No one will give them that opportunity.
“We still have two out of three branches of government, and that ain’t bad.”
What happens in a succession of power in the US? Is there not a moment before the new president is sworn in? That’s how long we had, a moment.
Honduras is just trying to get rid of one of the worst, most unpopular, most inept, and corrupt presidents they’ve ever had. They are slicker than some countries who would just shoot him in the head, but not as slick as others, obviously, or they wouldn’t have the whole world against them.
I have no illusions about white knights in this situation. If you read my blog, I think you know that. I do believe that this was the will of the majority of the people even though the process was bungled. I am for the Honduran people. I see and feel a sense of hope and empowerment that I’ve never seen in Honduras, and you know what? I really don’t even care whether it fits the US standards of democracy. Shocking I suppose, but I’m more concerned with the future of Honduras than debating a word. I’m just very sad that they are going to be crushed into submission by the US and Venezuela. They can’t hope to survive economic sanctions very long.
No hard feelings. I’m glad you had a little fun with it. Sorry for writing a blog back here. It’s very frustrating to see so much erroneous information being reported as fact. I feel a lot more emotional about it because I care about my husband’s country.
Jonna, thanks!
You might need to explain how journalists are reporting factual information, when the Committee to Protect Journalists is reporting on detentions and censorship.
As I said, one shouldn´t depend on bloggers (including myself) for complete information. There´s nothing wrong (and evertyhing right) about posting your view of events — though I have to consider that a blog normally about one´s personal life — will not have the same authority as one that normally writes on politics and culture (or, like mine — despite crappy editing and fast writing — is used as a resource for this kind of information).
As it is, only 0.5 out of 100 Hondurans have a computer, and only 2 percent have access to one — compared to 4.5 per 100 computer owners, 11.3 percent access iaverage for Latin America… and that internet access fees (according to world bank 2007 figures) average 33.30 USD per month in a country where the GDP (2006 estimate) is only 3,100 USD … how representative the internet community in Honduras is of Honduran society is questionable.
Given that objective information is difficult to obtain, as I said, I do need to check even “gardening blogs” (and a very good one), against what information is available from other resources. And, when the AP, Reuters, Presna Latina, El Universal, Notimex, EFE, Telesur and even the New York Times are all agreeing ion the basic fact that the was and is a coup and that there is violence, one can’t dismiss those reports as “biased” or claim that because you have not personally witnessed the event, it did’t happen.
It’s a coup. That is, unless some little-known part of the Honduran constitution says that the correct response to an ostensibly unlawful non-binding referendum to frog march the pajama-clad president to the airport at gunpoint and pack him off on the next plane to Costa Rica.
OMG ! it seems that La Gringa must be the wife of one of the big military honchos…